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NEXT MEETING
The next regularly scheduled meeting will be held as follows:
Tuesday, March 23, 2010
10 a.m. – 5 p.m.
Wednesday, March 24, 2010
8:30 a.m. – 3 p.m.
Gary Musselman
Executive Director

These notes below are from the January 2010 minutes.

3. Study the influence of club teams, year around sports,
specialization of athletes, and the effects on students and
school programs.
There was no discussion of this topic at this board meeting.
4. Develop a plan to address public/private school issues.
All Executive Board members were provided with a
copy of the final report of the KSHSAA Public and Private
School Study Committee which met five times during
the 2006 and 2007 school years. It was noted some
Board members were familiar with that committee
and its’ final report, while others were not. Discussion
centered on the experience of state associations who
have adopted enrollment multiplier formulas or divided
public and non-public schools into separate competition
categories, and the repercussions of such actions. The
Board directed Mr. Musselman to arrange for a presentation
at their March meeting, from a state association
who has experience in this area. It was noted the strategy
concerning the classification of schools (#2 above) is
interwoven with the topic of public and private school
issues to a great extent.

Last edited by smokeycabin; 03/23/10 01:49 AM.
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From KSHSAA Executive Board meeting Jan. 13-14:
CENTENNIAL LEAGUE PROPOSAL
(VYPE note: Centennial League includes Manhattan, Junction City, Emporia, Topeka, Washburn Rural, Topeka Seaman, Topeka Hayden, Shawnee Heights, Topeka West, Topeka Highland Park)
Brad Dietz, athletic director of Topeka Seaman High School, and Warren Watson, athletic director of Tecumseh-Shawnee Heights High School, appeared on behalf of the Centennial League. The Centennial League is proposing modification of KSHSAA Handbook Rule 30-1-6(4) Seasons of Activities, in an effort to allow schools the option of permitting use of their school owned football helmets by their students during the school coach’s non-contact, team camp. Discussion centered on reconditioning helmets, insurance coverage and premium costs, as well as other risk management considerations. The Executive Board took no action as this proposal seeks to modify a KSHSAA Handbook rule, and therefore must be acted upon by the Board of Directors. Accordingly, the Centennial League proposal will appear on the agenda for the April 23-24, 2010 meeting of the KSHSAA Board of Directors.
(VYPE note: Still, the best quote I've ever gotten on this topic, taken from "Naked Football" article in the August 2008 VYPE football preview issue: “Say you’re in court, and you’ve got a kid who was running a crossing route without a helmet and breaks up his face and needs reconstructive surgery,” says Armstrong. “His lawyer’s going to say, ‘He was playing football without a helmet on.’ That’s what I said at the Board of Directors meeting. How do we defend that?” I don't know.)
(VYPE note: Armstrong now sits on the Executive Board.)
(VYPE note: Now that the schools in KSHSAA's own backyard, the Centennial League, are chirping about this decade-old coaches' issue, maybe the policy will finally change. Honestly, football camp includes football drills, and to perform them without helmets is irresponsible.)
STRATEGIC PLAN STRATEGIES & SCHOOL FINANCE ISSUES
Resuming their discussion from last November’s meeting, the Executive Board engaged in extensive discussion on the strategic plan strategies prioritized by the membership at the regional meetings last October. Board members also spent significant time discussing the current school finance situation facing Kansas schools, and implications for school activity programs. Mr. Musselman reported there was much discussion on this topic with superintendents and members of local boards of education at the KSHSAA exhibit and during the Association’s breakout session at the December convention of the Kansas Association of School Boards in Overland Park. Mr. Musselman also reported on a meeting he attended at the ESSDACK service center in Hutchinson on December 16th. The meeting provided an opportunity to dialogue on this issue, with more than forty superintendents of member schools from the central Kansas area.
Discussion by the Executive Board focused on strategies districts are weighing regarding budget cuts and activity programs. Among the considerations board members raised were: 1) According to KSDE data, Kansas schools began the 2009-10 school year with more than 800 supplemental extra duty contracts being unfilled 2) Kansas school districts have a strong tradition of local control and want the ability to decide for themselves where and what cuts should be considered in school activity program budgets, as opposed to a mandated, across the board dictate 3) School activity budgets represent 1-3% of most general fund budgets. Accordingly, there are not significant dollars to be saved by cutting activity programs to a great extent 4) Supplemental duty contracts represent the single biggest expense in the overall school activities budget. For most districts the only way to save significant costs is to reduce extra duty personnel.
Study issues involving classification of member schools. (Specifically enrollment ranges)
Board members began a review of enrollment information used in establishing this year’s annual classifications. The numeric range of each classification was reviewed and discussion began as to what implications there might be if the number of schools in each classification were to be changed. It was noted classification changes would have many ramifications on regular season schedules, league affiliations, travel during the regular season as well as post season etc. No specific actions were recommended or taken, but it was agreed this area will continue to receive attention going forward.
(VYPE note: The irrational behavior here is that they're considering a change of the number of schools in each classification (implying an increase, I assume, unless there's a brilliant plan for 16-school large classifications -- please, no), while at the same time planning the separation of Class 1A into two divisions for basketball and volleyball in 2010-11.)
(VYPE note: Finally! During discussion, KSHSAA, please refer to my plan, taken from the Sept. 20, 2009 Weekend Rusher:
One of my other crusades is the dissolution of Class 6A as we know it. Thirty-two teams is not enough for one classification. There's just not enough competition. For goodness' sakes, half of the teams make the football playoffs.
I would add the 16 largest schools in Class 5A to Class 6A, increasing the largest classification's membership to 48. The other 16 in Class 5A would drop to Class 4A, which would be best for them anyhow. The lower half of Class 5A population-wise is rarely competitive in any of the state tournaments.
Under my plan, here's how the new Class 5A would have aligned this season for football, abiding by 6 districts, each made up of 8 teams:
District 1 -- KC Wyandotte, KC Turner, KC Harmon, SM East, SM North, SM Northwest, SM West, SM South
District 2 -- Olathe East, BV North, BV Northwest, Olathe North, Olathe South, BV West, BV Stilwell, St. Thomas Aquinas
District 3 -- Leavenworth, Lawrence, Lawrence Free State, Olathe Northwest, Topeka, Washburn Rural, Topeka Seaman, Gardner-Edgerton
District 4 -- Junction City, Manhattan, Topeka West, Shawnee Heights, Emporia, Salina Central, Salina South, Newton
District 5 -- Derby, East, Heights, Southeast, North, Northwest, South, West
District 6 -- Dodge City, Garden City, Goddard, Maize, Campus, Liberal, Hutchinson, Bishop Carroll
A nice by-product of this new alignment would be the promotion of highly successful athletic programs at parochial schools St. Thomas Aquinas and Bishop Carroll. These two teams' prolific success is oftentimes a point of griping for many public school programs in Class 5A. By the way, based on the student populations from ninth through eleventh grades which I got from the KSHSAA, which is how they classify football districts every two years, every team in the new Class 5A would have had over 800 students in those grades. It worked out perfectly. There are currently 16 teams in Class 5A which had 800 or more students in those three grades when the KSHSAA got those numbers in 2007.
Two teams from each district would make the playoffs, based on their records playing a 7-game district schedule. It's perfect. Teams would be able to schedule two non-conference games, giving coaches flexibility to be creative or make sure their team gets at least one win that season.)
Develop a plan to address public/private school issues.
All Executive Board members were provided with a copy of the final report of the KSHSAA Public and Private School Study Committee which met five times during the 2006 and 2007 school years. It was noted some Board members were familiar with that committee and its’ final report, while others were not. Discussion centered on the experience of state associations who have adopted enrollment multiplier formulas or divided public and non-public schools into separate competition categories, and the repercussions of such actions. The Board directed Mr. Musselman to arrange for a presentation at their March meeting, from a state association who has experience in this area. It was noted the strategy concerning the classification of schools (#2 above) is interwoven with the topic of public and private school issues to a great extent.

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How many of the people on this board are from the private industry - or just parents who are not school employees.
Most of the board representatives are paid employees of the schools so it is a little easier for them to get to these meetings. Mileage, meals and hotels are paid for.

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Originally Posted By: smokeycabin
How many of the people on this board are from the private industry - or just parents who are not school employees.
Most of the board representatives are paid employees of the schools so it is a little easier for them to get to these meetings. Mileage, meals and hotels are paid for.


My guess is that most of the people on the board are school employees (specifically administrators) because KSHSAA is an organization formed to regulate school activities, probably the CEO of Sprint or Koch industries does not care about high school athletics or KAYS.

I know from personal experience that private industries often do a better job of reimbursing their employees for travel than do schools. I have friends that go on business trips and make money because the per diem from their company is in excess of what they spend, and their airfare, mileage, car rental, and hotels are paid for. Every time I drive a van to take my wrestler some where and have to take the turnpike, those dollars come out of my pocket since my district does not put K-TAGS in the vehicles. If we are out of town and have to fill up with gas, rarely do we get a gas card which means we put the gas on our credit cards. We can get reimbursed for the gas, but the school will not reimburse us for taxes, so I eat that too. Any food or drink I purschase at a tournament, or after a tournament is also out of my pocket, no per diem for overnight wrestling trips. As far as lodging for 1 day meetings like this, I know my father will drive from Norton to Topeka for a meeting, and then drive back the same night so he is not spending money for lodging. Whether that is because the district won't reimburse him, or because he is fiscally conscious and chooses to make that sacrifice I am not sure, but don't make it sound like these people who donate their time to serve on a board like this are getting paid vacations. Just because they are school employees, does not mean they are required to serve on these boards. They do that because they care about high school students and the activities they are responsible for over seeing.

I am not saying that I agree with every decision they make, but lets give a little credit where credit is due. At least the people on these types of boards care enough to volunteer to be on the board and try to make a positive difference.


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My point is if a private citizen (employee from the private sector) wanted to voice an opinion on some of these topics at these meetings - is that they have to take time away from their business or unpaid days off. If I take time away from my business - that is less revenue for the schools. I fully understand the school system very well 7 of my famlly members are teachers, coaches, social workers, etc . - they are in the public and/or private school system. Is the board made up of noneducational tax payers who help pay for the schools so they can pay the member dues? I have full appreciation for teachers, coaches, etc., and volunteers. It is 100 percent uncalled for to expand the number school classifications in Kansas High School athletics from 4 divisions to 7 or 8 classifications.

Last edited by smokeycabin; 03/24/10 03:11 PM.
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Illinois Population 12,400,000 with 4 classifications in basketball and 3 in wrestling

Kansas Population 2,800,000 with 4 classifications

Minnesota population 4,900,000 with 3 classifications

Missouri population 5,600,000 with 3 classifications

Wisconsin population 5,600,000 with 3 classifications in wrestling and 4 classifications in basketball

I will check the number of high schools in each state.

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Originally Posted By: smokeycabin
My point is if a private citizen (employee from the private sector) wanted to voice an opinion on some of these topics at these meetings - is that they have to take time away from their business or unpaid days off.


I guess that is dependent on the individual's situation. If I went to Virginia Beach this year to coach my athlete who qualified for SR. Nationals, my district was going to require me to pay for my substitute. The alternative was to lie and call in sick, so needless to say I am still in Kansas. I would say that if the school district these individuals work for feel it is a valid professional reason for them to miss school/work to attend these meetings, then those individuals are not penalized. If the district does not think that, then those individuals will probably be penalized by a dock in pay or using personal/sick leave. Either way, if someone felt strongly enough about this they might be willing to make a personal sacrifice to be part of the solution.

Originally Posted By: smokeycabin
Is the board made up of noneducational tax payers who help pay for the schools so they can pay the member dues?


I have no idea who is on the board, or how they were appointed there. Maybe it is something that a concerned citizen could do. At the very least someone who felt strongly about this could get on their local school board, and then use that position to influence the administrators who work for the school to support their views.

Originally Posted By: smokeycabin
It is 100 percent uncalled for to expand the number school classifications in Kansas High Shcool athletics from 4 divisions to 7 or 8 classifications.


I don't disagree with you on this point. I have not formed a concrete opinion regarding the enrollment weighting for private schools yet, I see both sides of the arguement.


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I would volunteer tomorrow to be on the KSHSAA Board of Directors. There needs to be representation from private citizens not just those who get paid by tax dollars and work for schools.


Will Cokeley
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willcokeley@gmail.com
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Will, I can't think of a better person to serve! Good luck. Matt

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I now have a copy of the report that was mailed to me. I do not have a scanner at home I will make the report available soon. I have to go to practice now - be back later.

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Smokey.

Why in your 6A elimination/bigger 5A class proposal did you elect to have 6 football districts, each with 8 teams, and then advance 2 from each district (12 total teams) to state level play. 12 teams at state would require anothe play date to play just the pig tails. Why not 8 districts of 6 teams each, advancing only the district champs (play the pig tails at district rather than at state.

Have I misread your proposal?


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Contrarian - That is not my proposal

If you are referring to an above post that is minutes from
From KSHSAA Executive Board meeting Jan. 13-14:

Last edited by smokeycabin; 03/25/10 12:35 AM.
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The Public and Private School Study Committee
Report to the KSHSAA
September 26, 2007

There were 18 committee members 14 from public schools and
4 from private schools on the committee. I will get a full copy of the report as soon as possible.

Meeting dates were:
March 27, 2006
May 1, 2006
February 14, 2007
June 21, 2007
September 13, 2007

Conclusion of the report:

The Public-Private Committee Study Committee recognizes and agrees that inequities exist between member schools; however, not all inequities fall between public and private lines. The numerous factors referenced in this report help distinguish one school from another and provide differing opportunites for school communities to achieve and grow. The Committee challenges each school to dedicate its efforts in working to achieve goals and principles of a healthy interscholastic program.


Last edited by smokeycabin; 03/25/10 01:17 AM.
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Smokey. OK. Thanks.

From "One of my other crusades is the dissolution of Class 6A as we know it" I took to be your comments and add on.


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we need three classes for all sports except football (there should be 4).

combine 5a and 6a= 64 schools
4a= 64 schools
321a= 63 schools

the difference in football would be 8 man schools= all 1 class


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A common sense approach. HEADUP can you get on the KSHSAA board?

HEADUP post:

we need three classes for all sports except football (there should be 4).

combine 5a and 6a= 64 schools
4a= 64 schools
321a= 63 schools

the difference in football would be 8 man schools= all 1 class
_________________________
"with attitude, will, and some spirit"

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I am still trying to do the math or financial accounting of the proposal to add more classifications. KSHSAA says that expanding the classes would put a greater financial burden on the schools during the post season and not KSHSAA. But if the schools (public and private) have to budget more for possible post season acitvities - that is less money available for other academic, extracurricular, and athletic activities or member dues. The money has to come from some fund. This is a real head scratcher.

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Headup.

Nice proposal. But where are the other 165 schools. You listed 64 + 64 + 63 = 191 schools. 2009/2010 Classification list 356 KSHSAA member schools. Must be the 165 2A and 1A schools. Either need another class (for 2A & 1A) or add the 165 more schools back to 321A.


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Quote:
Nice proposal. But where are the other 165 schools. You listed 64 + 64 + 63 = 191 schools. 2009/2010 Classification list 356 KSHSAA member schools. Must be the 165 2A and 1A schools. Either need another class (for 2A & 1A) or add the 165 more schools back to 321A
.

The Devil is Always in the Details! grin


Greg Mann
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